Be careful out there!

[Brettz]

On Friday, I got a chance to leave the rally and take a run over the Dragon. While it's not everyone's cup o' tea, it is fun...but dangerous. I, for one, don't push my limits there, as it's the "other guy" you usually have to be wary of....there were plenty of Coopers out there, as a matter of fact. I tend to hug the white line...and I'm darn glad I do.....

I was testing out my new video camers (and got some nice footage...is it footage if it's all digital???), but attached is a screen shot from my video. Imagine if I had been in the middle of MY LANE!!! :emoticon-0141-whew: :emoticon-0141-whew:

In real time, it happened so fast, I barely had time to be scared. I wonder if that guy knows how lucky he was?

Brett

[Boxer]

Maybe that guy was from England.

[Laura]

WOW, that's too close for comfort. Why the heck would he be over the yellow on a lefthand curve? Maybe he was a British driver like Boxer said.

I've never done "the dragon" and it holds no appeal for me whatsoever. I keep hearing stuff like this from riding friends and frankly, it's just not worth the risk. I'm sure there are other roads in the area that are as good or better that don't have the traffic this one does. Granted, S&*T can happen at anytime on any road but you just have to try to minimize the risk.

Congrats on your riding technique that day! The other dude is real lucky you weren't a wide four wheeled vehicle.

[daleinmacon]

There are so many beautiful roads in Western N.C., Tennessee, and Virginia that have better surfaces and turns with much less traffic. I'm glad the Dragon is popular, better for those who prefer the "roads less traveled." No offence to anyone who loves 129.

[danny andrews]

Sunday A.M. north of Dahlonega a 37 year old Alpharetta man topped a rise leading a group of crotch rockets on his GSXR and bought the farm . A car turned left and he couldn't react in time . Witnesses say he was pushing 100 mph and laying on the tank. Very sad for his family and the driver of the car he hit .

[Laura]

I read about that in the Gainesville Times but there were no details except that a car turned left in front of the motorcycle.

The guy was no kid. At 37 yrs old he should have been smarter. It's very sad for his family and for the people in the car that hit him. I feel bad for his friends riding behind him. That's something that will never leave them. I pray for them all.

[winglessflite]

That accident happened on a highly travelled section of road just outside Dahlonega on a Sunday morning when people are going to Church. I was there about an hour after it happened, even though I usually go another way because it's always too congested.

It used to be calm and peaceful up there but now the sounds of wound up rice rockets and loud obnoxious Harleys are everywhere. Maybe I'm just getting old.

jackie

[Semper Gumby]

...the detore Roy and I went around on are way down from Suches. Darn. Was anybody in the car physically hurt? I'm sure thay are having trouble coping with what has happend to them. Just talked with Roy Fant about this. There is a post on the TWO list. Aparently an old lady was trying to get into church parking and was held out in the road by cars parking. The lead rider hit her and was ejected hitting another parked car and went DRT* (Died Right There). Apparently several of the riders following also crashed with no further deaths but you can only imagine the carnage caused by the speeding squids.

[Semper Gumby]

There are so many beautiful roads in Western N.C., Tennessee, and Virginia that have better surfaces and turns with much less traffic. I'm glad the Dragon is popular, better for those who prefer the "roads less traveled." No offence to anyone who loves 129.

Brett and I had more fun on NC 294 and then on HWY 68 on the way up to the Cherahala than we had on 129. It started raining, then there was the small tree down on the road, then there was the gravel on the east end from the Mini Coopers running around o Friday. But the view with the clouds running across the peak at the 5000 foot level was really cool. Take the good with the bad I guess. :emoticon-0144-nod:

[Semper Gumby]

From the TWO list forwarded to me by Roy Fant:

From: Greg & Britt Turner <twowheelsonly@alltel.net>
To: twowheelsonly@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 5, 2008 5:52:10 PM
Subject: [twowheelsonly] Re: Yesterdays Accident

This is from an eyewitness, who talked to us about an hour after the accident and who is a motorcyclist:

The location was at the Church on 60 just north of the business 60 split on the North side of Dahlonega. An elderly lady was making a left turn from the northbound direction on 60, slowly pulling into the driveway of the church parking lot, which was crowded for the Sunday morning services. A group of sport bikes crested the hill just north of the church headed southbound at an estimated speed of 100+mph. The lead rider on a GSXR hit the right front fender of the car, ejecting him airborne over the car, head first into a parked car in the church lot. The eyewitness ran with others to assist the victim, but they could not detect any life signs.
The lady driving the car did not suffer any physical injuries.
The Church on 60 is just south of a long downhill straightaway with a passing lane, which ends in a right hand uphill sweeper that crests just before the driveway. At the speed limit (and an upright seating position) you would have no problem stopping for traffic entering/exiting the drive.

He was unclear of any injuries or number of the other riders group who also crashed, but did not hit any cars.

[Traveling Penguins]

We ran 68 on the way home from the rally Sunday, that's a great road, wow.

I've enjoyed the Dragon the couple of times I've ridden it, but I will say that I'm reluctant to ride it on weekends when I know the congestion will be high. Yellow-line-crossers, bad passers, etc, ugh. Kenny will ride 129 anytime without worrying about it like I do, but then he's more experienced/skilled by far than I am. There are several roads I think we both enjoy better, like the Cherohala and Wolf Pen Gap.

[Traveling Penguins]

I read about that in the Gainesville Times but there were no details except that a car turned left in front of the motorcycle.

The guy was no kid. At 37 yrs old he should have been smarter. It's very sad for his family and for the people in the car that hit him. I feel bad for his friends riding behind him. That's something that will never leave them. I pray for them all.

Should have been smarter? Some how I get the impression that just from what I have read here that this rider lost his life because a lady was parked in the road and it was his fault that he hit her because he should have been smarter? wow

[Laura]

Should have been smarter? Some how I get the impression that just from what I have read here that this rider lost his life because a lady was parked in the road and it was his fault that he hit her because he should have been smarter? wow

You might have missed the fact that he was laying on the tank doing over 100 miles per hour on a busy road in Dahlonega.


A group of sport bikes crested the hill just north of the church headed southbound at an estimated speed of 100+mph. The lead rider on a GSXR hit the right front fender of the car, ejecting him airborne over the car, head first into a parked car in the church lot. The eyewitness ran with others to assist the victim, but they could not detect any life signs. The lady driving the car did not suffer any physical injuries. The Church on 60 is just south of a long downhill straightaway with a passing lane, which ends in a right hand uphill sweeper that crests just before the driveway. At the speed limit (and an upright seating position) you would have no problem stopping for traffic entering/exiting the drive.
Yeah, he should have been smarter. Do you really think I would have said that without this information? Wow!

[Blakduc1]

Well... it is hard to be justified in comments like these without being there, seeing it, and knowing all the facts.

Was the old lady competent to drive? Was she on medication? Had the biker been drinking alcohol? Did anything malfunction on the bike? Was he an experienced rider? Was there another car in the way anywhere -- like in the road behind the one turning left, preventing the rider from having somewhere to go? Was there anything that inhibited traction in the road? Was the biker familiar with this stretch of road? Did the car stall out at the last minute in front onf the bike? Did the bike rider's throttle stick? Did the old lady see the biker before she turned and misjudge his speed? Did the biker just buy the bike and have no training? Was he riding his own ride?

There are so many unanswered questions here, and it amazes me how folks look at the surface and make comments and accusations, etc based on such limited knowledge. The rider may have actually been very "smart". He may have been a good rider. He may have avoided a lot of crashes in the past that would not have been his fault. That day he evidently made a mistake, or a mistake in judgement, or lost concentration .... who knows? Have we ever made a mistake? ... And the situation went bad -- the car turning must have been the absolute worst timing. Yes, I realize the bike was technically going too fast --- but have none of you that are making comments like "should have been smarter" ever gone over the speed limit? Some of those bikes can get to 100 mph really fast , get around a car, and get back down to 50 or 60 mph Really fast. That is part of the beauty of a sportbike. They can pass quickly -- and they can stop quickly, and are very maneuverable.

(..is a guy that hits a deer at night "not very smart" because he rode at night? )

Yes, apparently he was running fast for that part of road coming into a more congested area near town. Yes, apparently the old lady was moving way too slow. ...perhaps a combination of poor driving and /or mistakes/ bad judgement ....

......but let's not run them down without knowing more real facts.....

dp

[Semper Gumby]

Just passing on information. You speak the truth in your points. I will withhold further coment until I can see an accident report. I will say this though: I fear forrest rats (deer). I fear squids. They both affect how and when and where I ride and the equipment I put on my bike - LOUD horns, Headlight modulator, PIAA pencil beams, the best brakes and tires money can buy. Brett Zeitz had a really close call on the Dragon. I thank God nothing bad happened to him because there but for the grace of God go I.

Sincerely,

[Laura]

I agree, that I won't make further comment or argue your valid points until more information is known. However, I'm afraid of animals in the night, I never ride at night. I afraid of squids. I've had them pass me on tight curves, cut me off and drive by me doing wheelies at breakneck speed. I'm a rider for 30+ years and I'm usually on the rider's side. Actions I've seen by some crazy sportbike riders make me very afraid of being on the same road with them.

What is known is that someone's brother, son, husband, friend has left this earth and they will miss him. A moment of adrenaline over good sense may have contributed to that. It's sad and as I said before, I'll pray for all of the people he left behind.

[Traveling Penguins]

there but for the grace of God go I.

Semper G, you speak truth.

I think it's human nature to want to convince ourselves that what happened to this unfortunate rider could never happen to one of us, and so we look for things that rider did wrong that we would never do. To be certain, we sway the odds more in our favor and try to manage our risk (don't speed, or don't speed quite so much, or don't speed in certain situations, and don't ride at dusk when the deer are out, some don't ride 129, many are ATGATT, etc), but some risk always remains, and if you ride, something like this could happen to you even if you do everything 'right'.

I try to learn from others' mistakes and misfortunes, and I try not to pass judgment on another rider in the absence of all the facts, and it's hard to do both :)

[Spsmitty]

One more tid bit of information here. Two friends of mine that spent the week-end with us at the rally were on their way home from the rally Sunday morning and were passed by this group of riders just before the accident. They said they were riding single file behind a cage and were running about 50mph when this group of riders passed them and the cage at about 70 plus miles and hour. As soon as they rounded the next turn they saw the carnage up ahead. As bad as we all hate to see one of our own go down and certainly die from it, sometimes you just have to admit that the rider should have been riding more responsibly. Have I ever ridden faster than I should? Certainly. Will I ever do it again? Certainly. Have I ever passed a vehicle when maybe I should have stayed in line? Certainly. Will I ever do it again? Probably. I have also done the same things in my car and my truck. These kinds of things are not reserved for motorcyclists only. The thing is, if and when we do this we are putting our lives and other persons lives in a certain amount of jeopardy.
I remember one particular day when I was riding the dragon, back when the BMWRA Rally was held nearby, and I met a black Ducati coming towards me in my lane. This Ducati rider was passing a car on a double yellow at a high rate of speed. I'll never forget how close our helmets got as he came by me. It was a scene very similar to the scene depicted in Brett's photo. As I looked straight into the rider's eyes I said to myslef "damn Doug Peters you trying to kill me"?
I hope none of us buys the farm but it is for sure we could probably all ride a little more sensibly at times. The number one thing that was taught to me in automotive and motorcycle training classes is to drive defensively. It is hard enough to make it out there on the roads just watching out for the other guy, but when we compound the problem by being irresponsible ourselves we are asking for trouble.

Ride Safely,
Steve

[Spsmitty]

Doug,
I know you are one of the more skilled riders I know. Remember, I have been on lots of rides with you. On the particular day in question you were riding agressively, after all you were riding Deal's Gap aka "the dragon" on a day when many were testing their abilities. Luckily for both of us, I too am a decent rider and I drove defensively and took evasive action. Later on that day when I talked to you and mentioned the event you grinned sheepishly and said "oh, was that you?" For the benefit of us all we have got to change our attitudes about how we ride on the public roads. As hard as the AMA tries to lobby for our rights, if we don't quit some of the current practices and start policing our own kind we are going to get governed right out of our sport. The older I get the more I realize our club needs to organize track days to provide an outlet for those that want to go faster than the public roads allow.

Ride Safely,
Steve

[Brettz]

Steve,

I couldn't agree with you more, and, as of this year, I have taken action! I will be attending Pridmore's CLASS at VIR in June, then I will be at Roebling Road with a group of BMW guys from the i-bmw.com site for a TWO day track session in August. I signed up for the two days of instruction with Frank Kinsey. Then, our club's first track day invitation with the US DESMO group in Nov.

My thoughts were similar to yours, Steve. IF I rode up in the GA/TN/NC mountains once every month....and rode hard (some use a "tenths" estimate, such as, riding 6/10ths or 7/10ths of their skill level), I'd face hazards we are all too familiar with. But if I could get to a track and LEGALLY ride hard, without those hazards, then when I did back to the mountain roads, I would:

1. Not have the desire to push myself, as there's always another track day around the corner

2. If I WAS riding, say, 7/10ths before, after a few track days, perhaps the same level would only be 4/10th or so of my "elevated" skill level, giving me the necessary room for error for those hazards previously mentioned.

I believe it was Bob Hancock that put a link here for a track day directory, and I ordered one (I think it was $4.95 to the door). Roadracing World Track Day Directory...www.roadracingworld.com You don't have to wait until November to get on a track. There are days available all over the place. As a matter of fact, Jennings GP track, JUST over the border in FL, was BUILT as a training facility for motorcycles. You can go there most any day and pay somewhere between $100-$125 to ride. Be aware that each track day will have its requirements for your protective gear and your bike will have to pass their tech inspection. The magazine has all this information listed...pretty nice.

The i-bmw.com class STILL has openings and they really would like to fill it up. There's only 10 riders in the "with instruction" group in which I'll be participating, 20 in the "without instruction" group. Cost is $500 with Frank Kinsey's instruction for TWO days (both required) or $300 for two days without. August 16/17th.

I think I may have Semper Gumby ready to get his old Honda out there.....:emoticon-0144-nod:

Brett

[Bob Hancock]

The older I get the more I realize our club needs to organize track days to provide an outlet for those that want to go faster than the public roads allow.

Ride Safely,
Steve
So you'll be coming to Roebling in November on Red Ryder? Cool. Make sure you sign up soon to get the US Desmo member rate, though.

[Blakduc1]

Good post, Brett.

I highly recommend what you are planning to undertake on the track.
Through the years, I have attended Pridmore's CLASS school at least five times, as well as Frank Kinsey's race school. Add to that a load of track days, including many with USDesmo (the BEST track day group I have ever seen), and I believe it really helped my confidence and street riding abilities.

I hope more of our members get excited about doing this kind of thing.

Thanks,
dp

[Bob Hancock]

This thread reminds me to invite all to look for my last track day article in the September 2008 issue of The Centerline. I have a special surprise I think most folks will enjoy.

[Traveling Penguins]

I have heard many people make comments about other riders and their faults. Second guessing actions and trying to perform arm chair analysis. Motorcycle riding by its nature is dangerous. Two wheels, no protection other then what one wears and a machine whose horsepower to weight ratio is usually lower then 5. We all were drawn to this sport for various reasons and some who have ridden for a long time have broken almost every arm chair rule one can think of and exceeded all posted speed limits. I am not saying that this is right, it just is what it is.

I would hope that as riders we would be more understanding of others who ride and not try to impose individual opinions on them. It is a dangerous sport if you want to be safer then drive a car and buckle up only in good weather and not in traffic....

:)

[winglessflite]

You are probably correct that many of us have broken a few of the rules and seldom ride the posted speed limits.

In this particular incident, not much more understanding on our part is needed -- the guy was doing 100 miles per hour in a Church zone on a Sunday morning. He endangered not only himself and his friends but other innocent people as well. With this choice, he made the ultimate sacrifice.

We won't have to worry about imposing our opinions on anyone because I'm sure law enforcement and residents in that area will do it for us...and we'll all bear the brunt of it.

jackie

[danny andrews]

I haven't been to TWO in a long time because of the extra attention by LEO's,insane crotch rocket drivers and loud piped cruisers in that area. This incedent will just reinforce and enhance the enforcement and the DOT paint crews. Yes, I occasionally like to ride above the suggested speeds . I try to do this on the sly and not in heavily traveled areas.
I do miss some of the people and the TWO crew.